Angelqueen.org

Fr Robinson · Priest Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Sydney

What to think of MARIA VALTORTA

http://valtorta.alphalink.com.au/

IS THE WORK APPROVED?
Many conservative and traditional Catholics have been misled by an article circulating since 1992, referring to Cardinal Ratzinger's letter of 1985 and a summary of the seven "reasons” for condemnation of The Poem of the Man God in 1960. There is a good analysis of this in a new book Fireworks (Kolbe Publications Sherbrooke, Canada, 1996, pp. 78 9, 87 107). It points out (p. 105) that Father Giraudo of the Holy Office in early 1962 reversed the previous decision of that Office to place The Poem on the Index of Forbidden Books.

Since then acceptance of The Poem has spread widely with imprimatur granted by Bishop Roman Danylak in Rome (1998) for all the approved English translations. The canonical approval to publish, given by Pope Pius XII has not been seriously challenged.

See Gamaliel's advice, Acts 5:38 9

Don't forget, the approval of Pope Pius XII was more than an Imprimatur (permission to publish). It was an instruction to publish, given at the Vatican before official witnesses on February 26, 1948.

INTERNAL VALUE OF THE WORK
Now for the intrinsic arguments. Just about all the objections to The Poem involve taking quotes somehow out of context.

There are three ways to take a text out of context and thus distort its meaning.

First there is verbal or literal context. The Bible has these words: “…There is no God" (Ps. 52), and "Christ died in vain” (Gal. 2:21). No one can say that the Bible says (affirms) these statements, because in context we have:
"…The fool says in his heart, there is no God”; and "If justice comes by the law, then Christ died in vain". Yet the verbal context could also be made clear somewhere else, e.g. St. Paul saying "I would wish to be anathema from Christ”, in Rom 9:3, can only be understood rightly in the light of verses 38/9 of the previous chapter, and the rest of Chapters 9, 10 and 11. Likewise with Our Lord's words about cutting off a hand or plucking out an eye (Matt. 5:29 30) in a true verbal context we must understand the literary expression of hyperbole. It would be wrong to take it too literally. In the same way, Our Lord has given Maria Valtorta some surprising expressions, which the context makes quite clear.

Second is the cultural and temporal context. It comes as a surprise for some to realise that Christ our Saviour was truly human, and with other characters of the Gospel, was of quite a different cultural stock (from ourselves). Jewish first century styles and customs greatly differ from Western twentieth century ones. Even today, what is normal and proper in Palestine or Italy might be considered queer and sinful in America or England. In these latter countries we know it is not proper for men to kiss each other unless they are of close family, or they are enthusiastic U.K. soccer players kicking a goal. Yet in the East it is entirely proper and even expected. Sometimes they even may kiss on the lips as a sign of special affection without any unnatural or sexual connotation. Recall Our Lord at the house of Simon the Pharisee rebuking him for not giving the customary kiss (Luke 7:45). It would be calumny in trying to impute evil motives in the chaste, loving and manly kisses revealed in The Poem. No one who has read it in context entertains any suspicion on this score, even if they are surprised.

Thirdly, the most important context is the doctrinal or faith context. This is the norm for interpreting Sacred Scripture consistent with the unanimous view of the early Fathers or the analogy of faith. i.e. we must always interpret in conformity with the Magisterium of the Church.
The Vatican newspaper in 1960 hinted at an error in Valtorta's account of the sin of Eve. Fr. Roschini O.S.M. exposes the falsity of this charge in his book The Virgin Mary in the Writings of Maria Valtorta (Kolbe., Sherbrooke, Canada. 1986, pp. 276 9). He points out that The Poem teaches precisely what St. Thomas taught; that the first sin was a complex one involving pride, disobedience, gluttony and finally lust ('fuerunt plures deformitates " Summa 1 li 9.82. a.2, ad 1). He goes on to quote 10 saints and numerous other theologians in support of Valtorta! This is context.

With Valtorta, as with the canonical Scriptures, there are difficulties that are easily resolved by distinction from Thomistic philosophy such as: general vs. specific, strictly vs. broadly, properly vs. allegorically, in fieri vs. in facto esse, ad esse vs. ad melior esse, simpliciter vs. quodammodo. These distinctions are usually not needed for the simple faithful as the context gives them the truth without danger.

A Most Quoted “Error”
It has been described as blasphemous that Our Lady could say what is recorded in pages 37-42 of The Poem. There the Blessed Virgin is three years old, talking with her parents. She expresses her great desire to see the Saviour, Who She knows will come for sinners. She asks a logical question: can I be more saved and loved by Christ if I become a big sinner? The question shows that even with Her infused knowledge, Mary was ignorant of the great gift of Her Immaculate Conception which St. Joachim then explains to Her with a beautiful comparison. There is no dispute in Catholic theology about Mary's Immaculate Conception (since 1854) but there is a lawful and traditional disagreement about the extent of Her infused knowledge. On these disputed questions of theology, no one has the right to call the other opinion blasphemous. Nor should Our Lady's statement be taken out of context to condemn the whole work.

Thus you have the answer to the main objections. The writings of Maria Valtorta are in no way opposed to the Catholic faith or morals, they were never put on the Index of Forbidden Books for any valid reason, and they continue to edify the Church resulting in many conversions and vocations. Valtorta's writings were specially given by Christ Our Lord as a gift to His priests, to support the work of His Vicar St Pius X to combat Modernism (see The Poem. vol. 5, pp 946), and to reveal the truth of the Gospel in a special way. They fill in the gaps. They put you in the picture. They amplify the sacred text, e.g. the Passion may be five pages in your Gospel, it is 100 pages in The Poem.

If The Poem at times seems sentimental, it is really the remedy of sentimentalism in matters of faith. It is no more sensual that the works of St. Ignatius. who encourages the use of all five senses, plus imagination, in his ‘Spiritual Exercises'. Valtorta always leads from the senses to the spiritual, the sublime and the supernatural.

It is a masterpiece of sacred literature, unlike anything ever written. In some ways it is like being in the first seminary, trained by the Master Himself. A professor and sculptor friend of Maria Valtorta wrote in 1965: "(her works) have completely transformed my inner life. The knowledge of Christ has become so total as to make the Gospels clear to me and make me live them in everyday life better (Lorenzo Ferri). All those among our parishioners who have read Valtorta say the same thing.

With Pius XII I say: "He who reads will understand”

Remember that her major work on the Life of Christ, THE POEM OF THE MAN GOD, was condemned by the Holy Office in Rome mistakenly ONLY for the same reasons and the same time frame (2 years) as was the Saint Padre Pio condemned thirty years previously.

Only one Biblical Scholar of the twentieth century, has been recognised and beatified for his learning AND holiness; Blessed Gabriel Allegra. He first put the Bible into Chinese, and his latter years were spent reading, studying and promoting the Poem.

Fr. Gabriel Roschini, a famous Mariologist who also promoted Valtorta until his death in 1976, considered her writings greater than anything he has ever read on Our Blessed Lady. He wrote over 125 totally orthodox books!

St. Pius X granted an imprimatur for those who read “True Devotion”. One day (perhaps) a traditional pope will grant a similar reward for reading Maria Valtorta. When you have read the Poem, read the Notebooks.

Fr Robinson

comments welcome

murph · † Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 2124

Thank-you for posting this Father.

Damascus · Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 161

I bought the books 17 or 18 years ago. I ditched them.

Could'nt see the point of so much private revelations. Seemed like a distraction to me. We have the Holy Bible, the teachings of the Church, the lives of the saints. I think that's more than enough for one lifetime.

Johannus · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 24

Thanks Father. Often in life we come across something important but because of lack of details or vague distrust we let it pass us by. Your description of “The Poem” certainly assuages my reservations. I will get the book or books.

obscurus · Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 30

Is it normal for Our Lord to be called the Man-God?

Ave Maria · Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 209

I read all 5 volumes over about 10 months, 10 years ago and loved them.
The descriptions are so vibrant and it makes for wonderful meditation.

Then I had a spiritual director who asked me not to read them and so I have not reread them. But I have a new director now.

And I have had the distinct pleasure of meeting Bishop Roman Danylak and he was a grace and blessing to me. The only time I have ever been to confession to a Bishop. He was Ukranian Rite you know.

I am only slightly familiar with Bl. Gabriel Allegra but I know of holy priests who greatly admire his writings and quote him frequently. His approval is also telling.

Especially, I think I will reread volumes 1 and 5.

Ave Maria!

TDMarieD · Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 83

Thank You Father, for the encouragement to read these marvelous books.
I've read them several times.

The first time I read them I wanted to be cynical, but once I realized how beautiful they were, I couldn't put them down. It is so easy to read and really visualize the character of Our Lady, St. Joseph, Jesus, even Judas Iscariot. You literally follow the Gospel day to day.

Other things I learned is the genealogy of St. Joseph, who all the "Mary's" were, the personality of Peter, the timidity of Andrew, the conversion of Matthew, and one of my very favorites, Mary Magdala.

Every Lent I try to go back to the pages of the Passion week of Our Lord,
and follow his days leading up to the crucifixion. Personally, I prefer Maria Valtorta's version over Catherine Emmerich's.

I also found that after reading her books I was able to discuss the Gospels in a more logical way with my Protestant friends.

But most of all, Our Lady and Our Lord Jesus Christ, and all the characters of the Bible, became so real to me as if I had been there with them.

demographic_crash · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 57

Alleged supernatural
events and Maria Valtorta
http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/unapprov/mvaltort/mvaltort.html

http://www.ewtn.com/library/scriptur/valtorta.txt

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/poem_of_the_man.htm

http://www.ignatius.com/ViewProduct.aspx?SID=1&Product_ID=810&AFID=12&
_________________
http://www.geocities.com/demographic_crash

Johannus · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 24

CzechMate · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 158

The article below, although written by a Novus Ordo Catholic, enumerates some of the legitimate problems with the content of the Poems. The first concern, as Obscurus pointed out, is the title: Man-God. The appropriate title for God is "God-man." Our Lady would know that.

Even a drop of poison spoils the soup...and even more so for spiritual works. There are numerous errors and blasphemies throughout the unusually lengthy volumes written by a seer who lapsed into mental illness, unable to speak, during the last ten years of her life.

These volumes were placed on the Index of Forbidden Books by the respected Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., who was one of the overseers of that decision.

Finally, the diabolical spirit at Medjugorie gave its approval to the volumes which, coupled with the blasphemies, errors, and outright silliness of the contrived conversations of Our Lord and His Mother, makes these volumes dangerous to the Faith...to be avoided at all cost.

(my colored emphasis)

http://www.cathtruth.com/documents/medj.htm

...

The Growing Controversy

The Poem of the Man-God received a major boost during a broadcast interview on Mother Angelica's EWTN cable network, which aired an interview with Medjugorje seer Marija Pavlovic conducted by retired New Orleans Archbishop Philip Hannan, an enthusiastic propagandist for the Medjugorje messages.

Hannan, in fact, in a recent fundraising letter sent to members of the Archdiocese of New Orleans, cited his program's promotion of the Medjugorje messages as a key reason why Catholics should support public station WLAE.

On March 4th, on the Archbishop's Focus program, a viewer from Milwaukee asked Marija, on the air, "What exactly did our Lady say regarding the Poem of the Man-God?'

Marija responded that our Lady told her, "You can read it," and expressed an immediate afterthought.

"I have heard now that there are problems with this," she said," looking nervously over to Archbishop Hannan, who simply accepted the outrageous claim that our Lady would contradict the judgment of the Holy See, and changed the subject.
...

Seven Reasons Not To Read It

While the Archbishop's secretary and thousands of other Catholics continue reading Poem of the Man-God, and encourage others to do likewise, there are 7 reasons the Holy Office (consultors were Fr. Augustin Bea, S.J., and Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.) condemned the book:

1.) The book contains a fraudulent imprimatur, allegedly bestowed by Pope Pius XII, and has no legitimate imprimatur, which it must have.

2.) The Jesus and Mary are in stark contrast to the Gospels. "Jesus speaks the maximum like a chatterbox, always ready to proclaim Himself the Messiah and the Son of God, or to share lessons in theology with the same terms used by a modern professor . . . (and) the Most Holy Virgin speaks as abundantly as a modern propagandist."

3.) "Some passages are rather risque and record some descriptions and some scenes like modern novels . . . the reading of such passages as those quoted, only with difficulty could be finished without danger of spiritual damage.

4.) There are "many historical, geographical, and other blunders.

5.) There are numerous theological errors in the book, beginning with what "Jesus says about Eve's sin."

6.) "The work would have merited a condemnation . . . if nothing else, for reasons of irreverence."

7.) The authoress claims revelation, and the Church decided it was not revelation.

What Catholics Read

There are hundreds of examples justifying the condemnation of this Poem, but three examples are sufficient to illustrate how Jesus and Mary talk, offered with the caveat that this is blasphemous material.

After the 18-line description of the scourging of Jesus before His crucifixion, Valtorta's Jesus "says":

"They would not believe that I was the Messiah, but did not want to kill me, in case I were . . . The world, after an incubation of perverted ideas, explodes now and again in such displays of perversion. Like a huge pregnant woman, the crowd, after nourishing its monster in its womb with doctrines of wild beasts, gives birth to it so it may devour" (vol. V, p. 569).

After the crucifixion, and Jesus is taken down from the cross. Mary says, "Leave Him in my lap. If I succeed in warming Him up, He will rise sooner.

A few lines later, she reveals, "As far as I, His Mother, am concerned, He is nothing but a big boy who is tired and sleeping . . . Prepare the way for His return. I am sending you. I, whom Maternity makes the Priestess of the Rite. Go. I said that I do not want it. Do not think that I will let you put it on Him. It will be easier for Him to rise if He is free from those funeral useless bandages" (vol. V, p. 634).

After Jesus "revealed" to Valtorta how He rose from the dead, He explained how the marks were made on the Shroud of Turin:

"My kidneys, almost crushed by the scourges, were no longer able to work. Like those of people burned by fire, they were unable to filter, and urea accumulated and spread in my blood, in my body, bringing about the sufferings of uraemic intoxification and the reagent that oozed out of my corpse and fixed the impression on the cloth . . . anyone suffering from uremia, will realize what suffering the uremic toxins cause me" (vol. V, p. 669).

In Valtorta's fantasy, the Apostle Peter is continually rebuked by Jesus, and repeatedly warned not to judge people.

In one passage, Jesus exclaims to Peter, "You are an awful bore. You are worse than a boy."

In other passages, Peter is rebuked, "Peter, Peter, you are a big old baby," and is called "a snake."

With the other Apostles, he is compared to "pubescent girls."In one particularly violent passage. Jesus calls to Peter, "Come here, you usurper and corrupter," and accuses him, saying, "You have corrupted my Mother."

Final Notice

The current Apostolic Nuncio and his predecessor have received numerous requests from both laity and clergy on the prohibition on Poem of the Man-God, and in one recent response, Archbishop Agostino Cacciavillan observed that "faithful Catholics would still heed the reservation and caution expressed" in the Index of Forbidden Books dated Jan. 5th, 1960. Still, the question remains: Why is such a book still "selling like hotcakes" in Catholic bookstores?

by Paul Likoudis

Johannus · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 24

Thanks CzechMate
If indeed, and I believe it, these are examples of the text of this book, then I've lost interest in it altogether. You saved me the cost of buying it

John_19_59 · Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 822

Wow!

If the passages that CzechMate has printed are legitimate then that is one terrible book!

And some Catholics believe this was revealed (in the supernatural sense) to the writer?

Good grief!

TDMarieD · Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 83

This is incredible. Are we speaking of the same book?
These lines are taken completely out of context!
Regarding page 634,
Mary has her dead son on her lap...Satan has been turning around Her since the Last Supper...

"What are you doing? What do you want? To prepare Him? For what? leave Him in the lap of his mother. If I succeed in warming him up, He will rise sooner. If I succeed in consoling the Father and in comforting Him for the deicide hatred, The Father will forgive sooner, and He will come back sooner"

For the record, Jesus says in a commentary that the prayers of Mary DID bring him back sooner. Correctly speaking, from Friday 3pm to Sunday morning does not make 3 days.

And to end the chapter;
Jesus says:
And the torture continued with periodic attacks until dawn on Sunday. In my Passion I had only one temptation. But the mother, the Woman, expiated on behalf of woman, guilty, several times, of every evil. And Satan behaved mercilessly with infinite cruelty towards the conqueress...

...The world will not understand this page. But "those who are in the world without being of the world" will understand it and they will have an increased love for the Sorrowful Mother. That is why I gave it.

Now as to the "particularly VIOLENT passage "Come here, you usurper and corrupter, and accuses him, saying "You have corrupted my Mother"
refers to Peter. Once he meets the mother of Jesus, Peter, wanting a very special grace (to be given a son,) knows that if he can get Our Lady to agree with his petition, Jesus will allow him the favor. So he puts himself at the service of Our Lady, doing whatever he can to be of help to her.
And Jesus, laughingly, teases Peter by saying he has corrupted his Mother.(As if anyone thinks THAT would be possible.)

Look. I am not saying that the Poem of the Man-God is the Bible. I found it to be a beautiful work. If it has increased my love and devotion to Our Lord, then, all I can say is, "It works for me!"

But to condem something with out reading it for yourself is just plain nonsense. Don't give an opinion unless it is informed.

And the Medjugorie connection is ridiculous! Who cares what they say?

Some prelates don't like it, others use it as a base for sermons.
Have you never given it a thought that a Priest started a thread on this topic without condemning it ?

This reminds me of the treatment given to the secret of Our Lady of La Salette. Same confusion, same tactics.

nipr · Joined: 13 Oct 2005 Posts: 49

Can anyone tell me how what is written in the Poem compares to what is written in the Mystical City of God by Ven. Mary of Agreda? I derive tremendous benefit from that and because of the fruits it produces in my soul and my life (a tremendous love for Our Lady such as I never had before I read it), I feel it is a work that is from God. Has anyone read both and can they give me their view please?

Also, the reference to Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange, can someone be more explcit as to what he said? I respect this man's opinion. Thanks!

TDMarieD · Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 83

From what I remember when I first heard about these books is that Maria Valtorta did not want to be known, so the books were published without her name. That's is where the forbidden books list came in. Once they were re-issued with her name on them then they were taken off the list.

I've never read the Mystical City. I plan to get the books one day and go through them.

CzechMate · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 158

TDMarieD wrote:

CzechMate · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 158

MDMarieT wrote:

Fr Robinson · Priest Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Sydney

What I first posted is a rather negative defence of The Poem from its attackers. What is below is a more positive promotion, showing the hand of God in this work.

I have read about a 1,000 pages a year of Valtorta for 20 years, since Fr (now Bishop) Williamson appointed me to run the seminary bookstore. He was led to read it by the great Retreat Master of Econe, Fr Barrielle.

I have in my office a huge file pro, and a small file con the works of Valtorta. I have the 10 vol Italian edition for reference with its many profound footnotes. The pros far outweigh the cons.

The holiest and most learned clergy I know, are those who appreciate Valtorta, including two Rome trained Pre-VII Doctors of Canon Law who only say the Tridentine Mass.

The objections raised so far are meaningless in context. There is only one genuine mistake in all the 20,000 pages (plus) of Valtorta's writings that I have read: On Good Shepher Sunday, the commentary oin the Mass (Book of Azaria) includes the word Maronite among the schismatics. The original probably has Mariavites, a Polish schismatic sect that St. Pius X condemned.

The work continues to bring about conversions and vocations and deeper insight into the Holy Word of God. It is another weapon in our fight against Modernism.

Below is a short extract from a former Protestant minister, who converted by reading this book. Dave Webster's references and research are amazing. Look up the pages he refers to and see if you can believe Maria Valtorta could have made this up. She will go down in history as another Catherine of Sienna.

A quick look at the references quoted by Webster shows a marvellous harmony between the notes Gamailel took down at Our Lord's discourse, and the Book of Hebrews. He is right is saying that this could provide a solution for the classic difficulty with authorship. St Paul may well have added his own ideas and conclusion, presenting it for use in the Church without putting his own name on it out of respect for the great Gamaliel.

This theory fits with the decree of St Pius X's commission below.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07181a.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles#Hebrews

Concerning the Author and Manner of Composition of the Epistle to the Hebrews

June 24, 1914 (AAS 6 [1914] 417f; EB 429ff; Dz 2176ff)

I: Are the doubts about the divine inspiration and Pauline origin of the Epistle to the Hebrews which influenced certain minds in the West in the first centuries, chiefly because of its abuse by heretics, of such importance that, bearing in mind the unbroken, unanimous, and unwavering affirmation of the eastern Fathers supported after the fourth century by the entire assent of the whole western Church, due weight also being given to the acts of the Popes and sacred Councils, especially that of Trent, and to the constant usage of the universal Church, it is lawful to hesitate about reckoning it definitively not only among the canonical Epistles-which has been defined as a matter of faith -but also among the genuine Epistles of the Apostle Paul?
Answer: In the negative.

II: Can the arguments commonly based either on the unusual absence of Paul's name and the omission of the customary introduction and salutation in the Epistle to the Hebrews-or on the purity of its Greek, the elegance and perfection of its diction and style-or on the character of its quotations and arguments from the Old Testament-or on certain differences alleged to exist between the doctrine of this and the other Pauline Epistles, in any way invalidate its Pauline origin? Or rather do the perfect unanimity in teaching and thought, the resemblance of the admonitions and exhortations, and the agreement in phrase and even in words pointed out also by some non-Catholics, which are seen to exist between it and the other writings of the Apostle of the Gentiles, clearly indicate and confirm the same Pauline origin?

Answer: In the negative to the first part; in the affirmative to the second. (St Paul may well have written it, based on the notes provided by Gamaliel. KR.)

III: Should the Apostle Paul be considered the author of this Epistle after such manner that he must necessarily be said, not only to have conceived and expressed it all under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, but also to have given it the form that it actually has?

Answer: In the negative, saving the further judgement of the Church.

http://www.catholicintl.com/catholicissues/pbc.htm

The Replies of the Biblical Commission
Translated by E. F. Sutcliffe, S.J.

Abbreviations:

ASS: Acta Sedis Sanctae; AAS: Acta Apostolicae Sedis; EB: Enchiridion Biblicum; Dz: Denzinger

Pope Pius X, Motu Proprio Praestantia Scripturae, 18 Nov. 1907 (ASS [1907] 724ff; EB nn. 278f; Dz 2113f): “We now declare and expressly enjoin that all Without exception are bound by an obligation of conscience to submit to the decisions of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, whether already issued or to be issued hereafter, exactly as to the decrees of the Sacred Congregations which are on matters of doctrine and approved by the Pope; nor can anyone who by word or writing attacks the said decrees avoid the note both of disobedience and of rashness or be therefore without grave fault.”

God bless

Fr Robinson

Former Baptist Minister

The Poem –One Incredible Revelation!

BY DAVID WEBSTER

http://www.saveourchurch.org/

What the CDF claims The Poem of the Man-God to be, a mere human creation (which assassinates the character of its author), is the one thing it cannot be. No human being, or any group of human beings, could have put together the kind of information we see in such abundance in The Poem with such detail, consistency and accuracy. There is information throughout The Poem that could only have been known by a much later generation using computer programs of planetary positioning and lunar phases. This information has made the dating of every episode of this work possible, and for most this provides the very day on which the episode took place! ...

Personally, without The Poem of the Man-God, neither I nor my family would be in the Catholic Church today. That work is clearly the most powerful and incontrovertible testimony to the truthfulness and reliability of the Sacred Scripture and the absolute truth of the Catholic Faith to have been given to the Church in its 2,000 year history. It is clearly the most powerful testimony the Church has ever received against the ravaging errors of modernism, liberalism, and moral relativism in our day, as well as the errors of the extreme traditionalists in the Church …

If, indeed, the Word of God is “living and effectual, and more piercing than any two edged sword . . . and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart,” then we have in The Poem that Word in the most powerful and complete form I have seen anywhere in the Church. No one is claiming that The Poem can replace the Gospels or would even hold a place of significance in the Church without that ancient, but much less complete, record of Sacred Scripture. The ancient Gospel accounts establish the underlying certainty of the life and teachings of Christ and the Church. Precisely because The Poem contains such an astonishing amount of authenticating evidence of its supernatural origin, its affirmation of the O.T. and the N.T. records and Holy Catholic Tradition is extremely significant in our day when so much of Scripture and Holy Tradition is being questioned. The Poem verifies every significant element of Catholic faith that has become seriously muddled in the quagmire of today’s rampant materialism, sensuality, rationalism and egoism. The potential for this work playing a major role in the renewal of the Church is absolutely unquestionable. I have read all five volumes five times, and can tell you that one would not even have to have one bit of spiritual discernment to see that no human mind or any group of human minds could have written these volumes within anyone’s lifetime, let alone in the 3½ years it took Maria Valtorta, confined to a sick bed, to write it.

Here are a few examples of the many lines of incontrovertible evidences for the supernatural origin of this work that should be understandable even for those with no spiritual discernment. This work consists of 647 Gospel episodes recorded within a 3½ year period (1944 to 1947), not in chronological order, but often according to the visionary’s own personal spiritual needs and in conjunction with the events of the Church calendar. We know this not only from the original copies that were all dated, but because Maria Valtorta shows lack of familiarity with persons and places in later episodes of Christ’s life, whereas in the earlier ones she shows a great deal of familiarity. We have here an astonishing 20,000 handwritten pages from her (10,000 for The Poem), written in mixed order (and with hardly a correction), that, when assembled at Jesus’ instruction in proper sequence, present a perfectly flowing story with not one person, place or thing out of place. Even the best novelists, who develop their work in sequence with far shorter, far less involved story lines and far fewer characters (The Poem presents over 500 personalities!), have often been caught with irregularities in these matters. Not so with Maria Valtorta and the Poem of the Man-God.

This has all been accomplished while incorporating in its body and expanding upon nearly the entire content of all four Gospel accounts. Only 6 short Gospel texts have not been found in the body of this work. In addition to this we also discover an astonishing 950 quotations and references from some 40 books of the Old Testament, many of which are found in Jesus’ many teachings and sermons. It would have taken a special team of Old Testament biblical scholars to incorporate this many Old Testament Scriptures into any kind of series of teaching and preaching, let alone one that had to fit the particular settings carefully described in The Poem. These elements alone make the thought of human authorship absurd.

An additional line of incontrovertible evidence (which Valtorta was encouraged by Jesus to include for the benefit of “the difficult doctors” of the Church) deals with the vast amount of geographical, climatic, agricultural, historical, astronomical and cartographical information given in her work. Authorities in these fields have verified the accuracy of what she has reported with appropriate astonishment. Valtorta accurately identifies this agricultural and climactic information that is often unique to Palestine with the appropriate calendar period which she often specifically identifies. Without any evidence of planning and with hardly any corrections, Valtorta ends up with a perfectly flowing 3½ year story line with Jesus appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Valtorta shows Jesus to have traversed the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists. Not once, however, does she have Jesus (or anyone of the other 500 characters) in a place inconsistent with either the story line or distance or timing necessities.

For this work to be of human origin would have also required, in addition to numerous technical resources in several fields, the use of a pre-existing harmony of the Gospels, the four Gospels arranged both in parallel and in an acceptable chronological order. No one could have written a work that includes the entire content of all four Gospels without such a harmony without missing significant material, adding material contradictory to an overlooked parallel account, or duplicating accounts, mistaking some parallel accounts for more than one event. The Poem, however, while maintaining absolute integrity in all these areas, follows an altogether different arrangement than any previous harmony. Previous harmonies cluster all the ministry events of Christ into a single Judean, Galilean and Perean ministry. The Poem has six distinct Judean ministries with excursions into Perea and Samaria, with all but the first centered around the Passover or Tabernacles when Jesus would naturally have been in Judea. It has six distinct Galilean ministries with excursions into Syro-Phoenicia and Decapolis, always between these two feasts.

Though this is an altogether new arrangement, those few events in the Gospels identified by scholars as belonging to specific calendar, seasonal periods or geographical locations are all correctly placed. In respect to the great many Gospel events whose calendar or seasonal placement could not be determined from the biblical data, we find an incredible number of differences in sequence in The Poem compared to other harmonies, all of which rearrangements would have been completely unnecessary if the only purpose were to create an acceptable fictional account of the life of Christ. Of the 269 New Testament Gospel episodes occurring in the three full years of Christ’s ministry according to a standard arrangement, over half of them (146) are located differently in The Poem, and of these, 92 of them are placed in an altogether different ministry year. The lack of necessity for any rearrangement and the utter complexity involved in such a vast number of rearrangements rules out any reasonable possibility of human authorship on this one account alone. Valtorta’s numerous descriptions of moon phases, planets and constellations, their positions in the night sky, her continual noting of the time of year, seasons, months, climate, Sabbath days and feast days (though never claiming these to be without possible misjudgment), are so precise that every one of her 647 episodes have been dated using the ancient Jewish calendar of that day and computer programs of the heavens for that period of time. This has resulted in the untangling of every one of those 269 New Testament Gospel episodes from the chronological disorder we find then in the New Testament, and their fitting into a perfectly flowing and consistent story line that includes fully developed and continually intersecting accounts of over 500 persons with no contradictions or irregularities. What is now being determined is how this calendar sequence relates to our Gregorian calendar. From the preliminary research done by Thomas Dube of Washington State it seems that the Church may have been correct in assigning the date of the Birth of Christ to late December of 1 BC!

Also supporting The Poem’s claim of divine origin are the solutions it presents to problems in the Gospel accounts which scholars have struggled with for years. I offer four examples. Certain elements of the Resurrection story have frustrated scholars for centuries. Obviously, for the Gospel writers, the actual account was unnecessarily complicated for their purposes, so they simplified their accounts by telling only part of the story, or, as Matthew did, by blending the accounts. What is most obvious from the Gospels in this story is also what has up to now been so unexplainable and, frankly, almost impossible to believe. How could at least three groups of women separately visit and expect entrance to a sealed and guarded tomb in the darkness of an early dawn? No one has been able to explain how this could have happened.

That is a real predicament, especially because it involves testimony to the most important event of Christian faith. The account in The Poem not only untangles the five visits to the tomb (the first three groups of women, with the Magdalene visiting twice, and then the one later group), but explains very simply why the first three groups of women quite unintentionally ended up visiting the tomb separately, and why from the outset they, all together (with Mary Magdalene), were confident they could gain access to a sealed and guarded tomb.

The Gospel account of the story of the crowing of the cock after Peter’s denials has presented an equally challenging problem for those who have maintained the integrity of Scripture. Critics have, for centuries, pointed to this account as undeniable proof of error, and no biblical scholar has ever been able to satisfactorily explain the apparent discrepancies. The account in The Poem solves this age old problem by supplying the missing information, the lack of which only made the Scripture account appear to be contradictory. The Poem also offers clear evidence that could also settle the debate over the authorship of Hebrews and the important and logical reason this work was attributed to Paul, though language style shows he was not, at least, the primary author. The Poem gives evidence that none other than Gamaliel was its primary author. A most fascinating theme in The Poem is Gamaliel’s spiritual journey to Christian faith. Gamaliel, who had always shown the highest respect for Jesus, becomes a firm believer in Christ at the Crucifixion, though he does not openly identify with the Church in Christian baptism until near his death. Besides its lofty Hebrew style the major clue that points to Gamaliel as the author is that Valtorta reports seeing Gamaliel with a wax tablet and parchment recording the discourse of Jesus in the temple that contains a whole series of thoughts and themes found in Hebrews. (Compare pages 465-468 of Volume IV of The Poem to Hebrews 1:5,6,13,14; 2:5,11,14-17; 7:2,3,11-13,15-17; 9:11,12; 10:9,10.) If this was the origin of Hebrews, then it would have been circulating long before the Gospels were compiled. That could first of all explain why this very important discourse of Jesus was not included in any of the four Gospels.

And, if Gamaliel was the author, it would only be logical that he, not wishing at the time to openly identify with the Church, would have given this work to his former student Paul, who had also been converted, to disseminate it.

Perhaps the most striking example of divine authorship I discovered while puzzling over a four and a half month ministry in Galilee which was detailed in over 330 pages of The Poem but completely missing in the New Testament Gospels. While working on a parallel harmony of the four Gospels according to The Poem, I discovered, to my amazement, evidence substantiating this very missing ministry, hidden in one single verse in Luke. It was the sixth Galilean ministry, according to The Poem, that was completely missing from the Gospels. That text (Luke 17:11) comes right at the proper place at the tail end of what The Poem describes as the fifth ministry cycle. Luke admits at this very point skipping over a ministry in Galilee and Samaria. That this verse was placed into sacred Scripture could only have been for one reason, to help authenticate a revelation God knew He would give us in the 20 th century! Luke 17:11 serves no other purpose. The Poem also clarifies the meaning of Luke’s rather strange statement in the same verse that Jesus, throughout that 4½ month ministry in the north of Palestine, is actually “going to Jerusalem!” Going through Samaria and Galilee is certainly a strange way to go to Jerusalem!

But, once again, the narrative in The Poem describing this ministry in Galilee and Samaria shows us why Luke said what he did. Jesus was in this ministry anticipating his final trip to Jerusalem for His Passion and Crucifixion. Everywhere He went we see Him in The Poem bidding farewell. I could cite many other examples, of the Poem’s attention to such detail but this should be sufficient evidence that we are dealing here with a most extraordinary treasure of unmistakable divine origin. The greatest evidence of its divine origin, however, is in its profound purity and holiness, its depth of spiritual wisdom and insight. In this it is unparalleled.

While Maria Valtorta obviously had a very gifted mind with some real literary skill, she was only of average education and was confined to her bed the entire time she wrote and until her death in1961. She had access only to her Bible and Catechism. She often had no way to even access her own previous writings. Fatima and the dancing sun seen by 70,000 is nothing compared to the evidence of the divine hand in this revelation. The evidence here does not depend on the witness of others. The evidence here will not fade with time. It is inscribed in black and white on every one of over 4,000 pages, waiting for anyone interested enough to look at it honestly. Those willing to do that have done so in increasing numbers and in increasing conviction of the significance of Maria Valtorta and her works. So it has been that despite the serious maligning of her character and her writing from the highest office in the Vatican, outside of the Pope and the Secretary of State, the massive effort to begin her beautification process has now been completed.

But as someone has said, you cannot win arguing with the Devil regardless of the evidence presented. Apparently, too much evidence can be as bad as too little! One of the serious criticisms leveled against this work’s claim to be of God was that it describes a Mariology and a Christology in terms that only “modern theologians” would use! Is it possible there are those in the Church who could believe that our modern theologians have transcended the wisdom, theological and literary skill of Jesus Christ Himself? Heaven forbid the thought that Jesus Christ of the first century could equal our modern theologians in their theologizing!

There appears to be many in our day who cannot imagine any generation before them as intellectually advanced as their own. Beyond this, there are those who would also deny Jesus Christ any right to contemporize his first century language for us, if indeed that is what He did. Our biblical scholars, linguists and our priests can take the greatest liberties in contemporizing the first century message of the Word and express their own opinions as to what Jesus said to His first century audience in today’s language, but yet these would deny the Word Himself that same right? I do not know about you, but I can hear the hiss and rattle of a serpent under this, and all the other cold hard rocks that human pride and arrogance have thrown against this work, every one of which are hiding a very certain but subtle hatred for Jesus Christ and His Word. One day, this whole rock pile of human resistance to God within the Church that has too long been crushing the life out of the people of God will be consumed with an unquenchable fire. Woe be to those who have filled their own heads and hearts with such rocks!

Damascus · Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: 161

Is this your parish Fr Robinson?

http://www.stgerald.org/index.html

St.Justin · Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Florida

Father,
While I respect you as a Priest, I find that in your response, although flowery and beautifully written , does not respond to anything brought out by czechmate. What you wrote could well be said of Medj. including more than one conversion but that doesn't make it authentic. I am sorry but sentiment does not outweigh logic and higher authority. Some Catholics get a lot out of reading writings of Eastern religions but that doesn't make the writings Catholic or Divinely revealed. I do wish people would stick to points of discussion on this forum!
In Christ,

RobertS · Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 211

TDMarieD · Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Posts: 83

[quote="RobertS

Why are the false apparitions that have popped up since the inception of V2 so popular? Hmmmm

What I don't understand is why would any traditional Catholic who has the true mass, the rosary, and the Latin Vulgate to name just a few, need private revelations anyway (whether condemned or not)? Confused

I don't know anything about the Poem of the Man God (the title alone scares me) but if the fact as mentioned above are close to correct it is enough to avoid it at all costs. Nod

[/quote]

Well, we are not talking about false apparitions here, but private revelation.

In my case, I out with the started Poem, then went to the Rosary, then found the true Mass, then found the Douay Rheims! Smile

The point is, those of us who HAVE read it, have a different story to tell than those who rely on incomplete and second hand sources.

I don't mind if Czechmate has reservations after reading the sources he sites. I would too. But I would like to hear from those who have read it, to give their opinion.

I can't help thinking of the irony of how things have changed so much in the Church. You can't read Poem of the Man-God, but Fr. Greeley can sell his smut and no one in the Church will tell you to avoid it! Sigh...

Johannus · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 24

I am glad that in my previous posting I said: “Over a lifetime, I have read many books, been impressed…then changed my mind. We must cultivate our “Catholic sense” based and grounded in our Faith as taught in our Catechism and expounded so richly in Catholic Tradition. Spiritual reading is important, we need imagery to help us to meditate.”
Well…I should have re-read Fr Robinson’s first post before I let myself be impressed by CzechMate’s offering. His 7 reasons not to read the books are easily debunked by the material given by Father in his first and second posts.
TDMarieD post “This is incredible. Are we speaking of the same book?
These lines are taken completely out of context!” reminded me of my reluctance to read “The Way of Divine love” years ago. I had an exercise book and pen at the ready to tear it to bits. I did not write anything..I was bowled over!