I have recently joined this group and was wondering which was the criteria used to evaluate an apparition? In the list of apparitions given in the description of the group, some benefit of a certain acceptance from the Catholic Church (Lourdes and Fatima for instance), while others are seriously questioned (Medjugorje) or have already been condemned (Garabandal).

Ben, thank you for your mail regarding the Church's position on Garabandal and Medjugorje. I'll need some time to review the links for Garabandal, and thank you for pointing them out to me. Regarding Medjugorje, you state: "Also, the Vatican has taken over the investigation of Medjugorje from the Bishop of Mostar, and is investigating the allegd apparitions itself." I was wondering if you could tell me who/what is your source on this piece of information?

Piper wrote:
"Regarding Medjugorje, you state: 'Also, the Vatican has taken over the investigation of Medjugorje from the Bishop of Mostar, and is investigating the allegd apparitions itself.' I was wondering if you could tell me who/what is your source on this piece of information?"

Ben replied - by saying that he "believed" that some URLs supplied would give the answer.

Give us a break, Ben! Please don't make us search through miles of files to find what you claim! Would you please substantiate your claim?

Here is some information regarding the Church and Medjugorje taken from EWTN webpages. I will just quote parts but will supply the webpage so that anyone interested may read the webpage in its entirety.from http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/medjugorje.htm :

You cannot say people cannot go there until it has been proven false.
This has not been said, so anyone can go if they want.

...When one reads what Archbishop Bertone wrote, one could get the impression that from now on everything is forbidden, no possibility [for Catholics to travel to Medjugorje] ... nothing has changed, nothing new has been said.

...The problem is if you systematically organize pilgrimages, organize them with the bishop and the Church, you are giving a canonical sanction to the facts of Medjugorje. This is different from people going in a group who bring a priest with them in order to go to confession.

...Has the church or the Vatican said no [to Catholics visiting Medjugorje]? NO. ... The difference, in the terms of canon law, is that an official pilgrimage, organized by the diocese with the bishop, is a way of giving a juridical sanction to the facts; you are saying this is true.

What the Church permits. As the already cited statements note, Catholics may go to Medjugorje. Such pilgrimages may even include priests acting as chaplains, as opposed to officially sponsoring them. Also, the Church has not suppressed discussion of Medjugorje, therefore, it is allowed. Common sense, however, says that Catholics on both sides of the Medjugorje issue should exercise prudence and charity in speaking of others who believe differently. Medjugorje is not a litmus test of orthodoxy, though every Catholic will have a moral obligation to accept the judgement of Rome, in the manner Pope Benedict explained, should it ever be rendered.

From http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFAUBRY.HTM :

What Bishop Peric said in his letter to the Secretary General of Famille Chretienne, declaring: "My conviction and my position is not only non constat de supernaturalitate, but likewise, constat de non supernaturalitate of the apparitions or revelations in Medjugorje", should be considered the expression of the personal conviction of the Bishop of Mostar which he has the right to express as Ordinary of the place, but which is and remains his personal opinion.

Finally, as regards pilgrimages to Medjugorje, which are conducted privately, this Congregation points out that they are permitted on condition that they are not regarded as an authentication of events still taking place and which still call for an examination by the Church.

And that is perfectly correct...but it does not support the contention that the Vatican has "taken over" the Medjugorje investigation!

Note well the condition:

Private "...pilgrimages to Medjugorje, ...are permitted on condition that they are NOT regarded as an authentication of events still taking place and which still call for an examination by the Church."

Actually I did post the information under the above subject title which did give the impression that I agreed with how the subject is worded. I was just trying to provide some information regarding the Church and the events of Medjugorje. The EWTN site states :"Since the Medjugorje events had exceeded the scope of a local event, Cardinal Kuharic, President of the Yugoslavian Bishops Conference, announced in January 1987 that a national commission would be established to continue investigating." As far as I know no further announcements have been made officially. I have some links to some articles that might be of interest and add some more information to the discussion, I will try to locate the web addresses and post a few quotes in the future.

1. Mike Chonak's "Documents About Medjugorje - Documents on The Case"
   
   
Medjugorje. Is All That Glitters Gold?


2. One of the most interesting, and telling, document is Bishop Ratko Peric's 1985 The Throne of Wisdom" (Criteria for Discerning Apparitions Regarding the Events of Medjugorje

The fact is that until an Official ruling, Medjugorje is in a state of limbo...neither approved nor disapproved.

1. Unity Publishing provides a file by the Bishop of Mostar (within which is situated Medjugorje)
   
   
2. You suspect Unity Publishing - therefore you suspect and reject whatever it publishes, including the very important document by the Bishop of Mostar.
   
   
3. Using the same rational - you must also do away with "Away in a Manger", for it is suspected of being composed by the excommunicated Martin Luther. (Bishop Peric is, at least, not suspected of THAT!)
   
   
4. Also, you must excoriate the Bible passages Matt 7:21-24, and 1 John 4:6, for they too are published in Unity Publishing's file at Better To Believe?
   
   
5. (Matt. 7:21=24) "Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day,

   'Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?' And then will I profess unto them, 'I never knew you, depart from me, you that work iniquity.' Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock."

   (Unity Publishing's comment:)

   "The important thing about this statement of Christ is that the person was surprised, he thought he was doing the will of God, and he thought that the power he had to perform miracles and give prophesies was also from God. But this power was not from God. Christ goes on to say what the rules are. "He who hears my word" means all his words. Read HIS WORDS in Matt. 18:17 which states, "And if he will not hear them [witnesses or the facts] tell the church. And if he will not hear even the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican."

   "We are of God. [the bishops] He that knoweth God, heareth us. He that is not of God, heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error." (1 John 4:6) So! The "us" that St John speaks about here are the local bishops. In Medjugorje, the local bishops have been Bishop Zanic and Bishop Peric. Do not listen to them at your peril!

1. The supernaturality is not proven (meaning there is nothing heavenly about Medjugorje.)
   
   
2. The non-supernaturality is proven (meaning what appears to be supernatural is the result of human manipulation for the purpose of fame and wealth.)
   
   
3. As previously said, official or church pilgrimages are not allowed, nor are 'private' visits allowed that have the intent of proving that the so-called 'apparitions' and alleged 'messages' are authentic!
   
   
4. The fruits of the alleged 'apparitions' of Medjugorje have been those of great confusion and division, and not only in the local Church. Such IS NOT, AND CANNOT BE of God!
   
   
5. The alleged "seers" have been proven to lie over and over during the investigations of the commissions appointed by the Catholic Church. Such IS NOT, AND CANNOT BE of God!
   
   
6. As mentioned above, one of the "seers" claimed that Our Lady said that all faiths are equal. Such IS NOT, AND CANNOT BE of God! SUCH A DOCTRINE IS NOT CATHOLIC!
   
   Regarding the necessity of the Catholic Church for salvation, the Catechism of the Catholic Chuch states,

   846 "How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it." [C.C.C. # 846]
   
   

   The above is sufficient to prove that the faithful would achieve greater spiritual growth by attending authentic approved Shrines such as those at Lourdes or Fatima.