Reply to Fr. Patrick Buckley a.k.a. Thucite Bishop Pat Buckley

Following an entry in my Guestbook, I received an e-mail message from "+ Pat Buckley":


From : [Capistan1952@aol.com ]
Sent : Sunday, 5 September 2004 4:46:06 PM
To : jloughnan@hotmail.com
Subject : Bishop Pat Buckley
Sent: Saturday, 4 September 2004 2:45:13 PM

Dear Sean,

Contrary to the information on your web site Reverend Frances 1 and I continue in ministry to this day. We had a brief misunderstanding over the BBC issue but we sorted it our easily and quickly.

Can I also refer you to the SUNDAY TRIBUNE of 21st June 1998 and its headline CHURCH CONFIRMS CONSECRATION OF BUCKLEY AS BISHOP VALID.

I am also in possession of a hand written letter from Bishop Willie Walsh of Killaloe which reads


  1. " My understanding is that Patrick (Michael) Cox was ordained to the priesthood by a Catholic Bishop. His ordination would therefore be valid even if unlawful as the said Bishop was acting without the approval of the Holy Sea. [sic.! F.J.L.]

  2. My understanding is that the priest Patrick (Michael) Cox was later consecrated as bishop by a Catholic Bishop. His consecration as bishop would be deemed valid even if unlawful because the said Bishop was acting without the approval of the Holy See

+ William Walsh"
Bishop Cox's validity and mine is further attested to by the fact that the Archdiocese of Dublin (Bishop Kavanagh and Mons Alex Stenson) met Bishop Cox on several occasions and asked him to apply for laicisation. Why laicise him if he was not in priestly and episcopal orders ?

Bishop Cos's (sic.) consecrator, Bishop Ciaran Broadberry was laicised in 1983 through the good offices of Bishop Donal Herlihy of Ferns. Why laicise Bishop Broadberry if he were not in Holy Orders.

I would like you to include my letter on your webside (sic.) in the interests of right of reply, justice and truth.

Sincerely yours,

+ Pat Buckley


My edited reply follows. Additions to the reply are in blue font.



Dear Fr. Buckley,

I regret that I am unable to agree to your request in view of the fact that you have produced nothing substantial to convince me of any inaccuracy in my web file. 2 You claim to be "reconciled with Reverend Frances" ̵ whose ordination to the priesthood is not recognized and never will be recognized by the Catholic Church.

There may or may not be a claim in respect of your (as far as I can discover) unsubstantiated claim in 1999 to have "receiv[ed] 'conditional consecration' from an American Catholic bishop." In the five following years this claim does not appear to have been recorded by Terry Boyle or Luc Eifer. 3 I am certainly not going to act on your "say–so."

With kind regards and in the hope of your reconciliation with the Catholic Church,

F. John Loughnan

The following data was included in an attachment.




Here is a record as far as I have been able to establish:
DATEDETAILS
1945:•  Born: Michael Patrick O'Connor Cox.

1952:•  Born: Patrick Buckley.

1961:•  Born: Ciaran Broadberry.

1976, Jan.:•  "Ordinations and consecrations" at Palmar de Troya by Archbishop Ngô-dinh-Thuc.

1976:•  Patrick Buckley ordained at Waterford, Ireland for the Diocese of Cardiff, Wales.

1976, Sept. 17:•  AAS 68-623: re: Excommunication of parties to the Ordinations Conferred by Archbishop Ngô-dinh-Thuc (S.C. Doct. Fid.)"
"[...]
  1. "Finally, as regards those who have already received ordination in this illegitimate manner or those who will perhaps receive ordination from the former, whatever is to be said of the validity of the Orders, the Church neither now recognizes nor will recognize their ordination and, as regards all effects of law, holds them to be in that state which each one of them previously had. The above-mentioned penal sanctions remain in effect until they repent. All things to the contrary notwithstanding.."
1977, Feb. 13:•  Ciaran Broadberry ("Bernardo"), aged 16, "ordained" by unknown bishop – probably a Thucite.

1977, Sept. 01:•  Ciaran Broadberry "consecrated" a bishop by Clemente Dominguez Gómez, Manuel Alonso Corral and Camilo Estezez Puga de Maside – the first and second were "ordained and consecrated" by Thuc, the third "ordained' by unknown but "consecrated" by Thuc.

1978, Jan. 1:•  Michael Patrick O'Connor Cox ordained by unknown bishop – probably a Thucite.

1978:•  Clemente Dominguez Gómez formed "The Holy Palmarian Church." From this time, "consecrations" were done in "The Palmarian Rite" - that is, in a non-Catholic rite.

1978 – mid:•  Ciaran Broadberry disassociated himself from Palmar mid 1978. (per Luc Eifer).

1980's – early:•  Michael Patrick O'Connor Cox left "The Holy Palmarian Church" – became "a member of the 'Order Mater Dei', and, since April 2000, has been the Archbishop and head of the Order.". (per Luc Eifer).

1981:•  Having had his first excommunication lifted – Archbishop Thuc re-commenced "ordaining and consecrating" on the basis that the See of Peter was vacant.

1982:•  Michael Patrick O'Connor Cox consecrated a "bishop" by Ciaran Broadberry for "The Holy Palmarian Church." (according to Terry Boyle and Luc Eifer. 3 Inasmuch as Broadberry "disassociated himself from Palma" (leaving the H.P.C. in the early 1980's) – apparently in favour of the "Order Mater Dei" – it seems "odd" for him to have created Cox a "bishop for "The Holy Palmarian Church" on an undisclosed month in 1982. (See 2004 entry from ex "Bishop" Geoffrey Francis Mayne on the Broadberry lineage.)

1983, Mar. 12:•  AAS 75-392 Notification from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:
( the excommunication of Archbishop Thuc for the second time.)
"[...]
  1. "Finally, as regards those who have already received ordination in this illegitimate manner or those who will perhaps receive ordination from the former, whatever is to be said of the validity of the Orders, the Church neither now recognizes nor will recognize their ordination and, as regards all effects of law, holds them to be in that state which each one of them previously had. The above-mentioned penal sanctions remain in effect until they repent. All things to the contrary notwithstanding..

    "Moreover this Sacred Congregation believes it has the duty strongly to advise members of the faithful to avoid participating in or fostering in any way liturgical activities or undertakings and works of another kind which are prompted by those persons mentioned above."

Fr. Vincent Twomey SVD, Lecturer in Moral Theology and Editor of The Irish Theological Quarterly Pontifical University, Maynooth, stated in The Irish Times April 27, 1999 that:
"Moreover, the document continues, the Church 'considers them in the state each had previously', in other words as laymen or priests. Thus, in the eyes of the Church, we are dealing with a Mr Michael Cox, a Father Pat Buckley, whom he [Cox] attempted to ordain a bishop, and, most recently, a Ms Sinead O'Connor."
1983:•  Former Thucite, Cairan Broadberry, (consecrator of Michael Cox) was reconciled with the Vatican. He was laicised and is now married.

Note: Former Thucite "bishop", Geoffrey Francis Mayne – who changed his name legally to Luc Eifer in honor of Lucifer – states:
"There is a question about the 'validity' concerning the sacerdotal and Episcopal orders that Ciaran received in Palmar. An investigation is currently being carried out by the Holy See (January 2001). Anyone interested in the outcome of this investigation, can contact the Holy See."
My guess is that, at 16 years of age, he was 1) too young to be ordained a priest (Canon 975 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law), and 2) too young and unlearned to be consecrated a bishop (Canon 331 of the same Code) – apart from any other reasons.

1984, Dec. 18:•  Archbishop Ngô-dinh-Thuc's statement of final retraction with information regarding reply from Cong. Doctrine of the Faith. DocCath 82 (1985): 185.

1998, May 19:•  Patrick Buckley allegedly consecrated bishop by Michael Patrick O'Connor Cox, a Thucite bishop of the Order Mater Dei.

1998, June 14:•  Fr. Pat Buckley's letter of suspension from his Ordinary, Bishop Patrick Walsh, is described by Buckley as "meaningless." He writes this on May 10, 1999.

1998, June 21:•  Alleged article the Sunday Tribune "Church Confirms Consecration of Buckley as Bishop Valid."

Note: 1.) The article does not appear to be on-line; and the ALEXA/GOOGLE search engine produces no "hits" corresponding with the alleged headline. 2.) There is no indication as to which "Church" has allegedly given the confirmation.

1998, Sept. 14:•  "Bishop" Patrick Buckley "ordains" Sr. Frances Meigh.

1999, Feb. 14:•  Buckley claims: "I took the precaution on February 14th,1999, of receiving 'conditional consecration' from an American Catholic bishop."

1999, April:•  Sinéad O'Connor "ordained" by "Bishop" Michael Cox in a Lourdes hotel bedroom.

1999, April 29:•  "Bishop" Cox is reported in The Irish Times that "I would never prostitute my holy orders." Well, maybe, but he WAS going to accept £150,000 from Sinead O'Connor until Buckley expressed his opinion that simony might be involved! And two days earlier, on April 27, it was also reported in The Irish Times that "...he attracted attention for setting up a telephone confession service. Callers of the 1570 premium line were charged £1 a minute and invited to leave details of any medical problems, for which a Latin Mass would be offered the following Sunday."
Apparently the £150,000 offer was withdrawn - according to the same paper.

1999, April 29:•  Patrick Buckley commented in The Irish Times that claimed that Catholic Bishop Willey Walsh of Killaloe had written to him, stating:
"My understanding is that [Michael] Patrick Cox was ordained to the priesthood by a Catholic Bishop. His ordination would therefore be valid even if unlawful as the Bishop was acting without approval of the Holy See. My understanding is that the priest Patrick Cox was later consecrated a bishop by a Catholic Bishop. His consecration as bishop would be deemed valid even if unlawful because the said Bishop was acting without the approval of the Holy See."
Comment: Given the January 2001 statement by former Thucite "bishop," Luc Eifer (Lucifer) that: "There is a question about the 'validity' concerning the sacerdotal and Episcopal orders that Ciaran received in Palmar. An investigation is currently being carried out by the Holy See (January 2001). Anyone interested in the outcome of this investigation, can contact the Holy See," – Bishop Walsh's "understanding," may be "misunderstanding" – particularly in view of his misunderstanding of the Catholic position, espoused by the Pope and Cardinal Ratzinger on the matter of NOT having the power to ordain women to the priesthood!

Secondly, Bishop Walsh may not be aware that the consecrator of Cox was aged only 16 years and, obviously, lacking in required qualities.

1999, May 10:•  Continuing his comment on the letter of suspension from his bishop, Buckley says: "I took the precaution on February 14th,1999, of receiving 'conditional consecration' from an American Catholic bishop."

Comment: This is an admission that Buckley, himself, is not fully confident in the validity of his Thucite "consecration." Furthermore, it is typical of past schismatics who attempt to gain "validity" for their "consecrations" by obtaining multiple "conditional consecrations". In Buckley's case – he apparently goes via the "Old Catholics" in America and the Van Steenhoven and Arnold Harris Matthew line.

1999:•  "Bishop" Patrick Buckley of Belfast came-out" from the "closet."

2000:•  "Grant of Episcopal Arms to Bishop Pat Buckley" by the Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland. Comment at http://homepage.eirecom.net/~seanjmurphy/chiefs/buckley.htm claims that "his website reveals he will wed divorcees, bless gay and lesbian unions and has even ordained a woman."

2002, Nov. 7:•  Catholic Bishop Willie Walsh of Killaloe claimed there is "the need to change the rules about priestly celibacy and women priests" – contrary to the pope declaring that he does not have the power to go contrary to Christ on the matter.

2003, Jan. 23:•  Reported in UTV
About six months ago, homosexual "Bishop" Pat Buckley "dobbed-in" Fr. Joe McGuigan to his bishop, Bishop Patrick Walsh. The report stated:
"Rebel priest Bishop Pat Buckley said today he informed Bishop Walsh that a picture of Father McGuigan taken at a gay function had appeared on the internet last July.
"He said: 'Bishop Walsh did not respond to that letter but he has known about it since July.' "
2004, Feb. 18:•  Thuc ex "Bishop" Geoffrey Francis Mayne's updated website carries the following warnings:
  • "The Broadberry Lineage: due to the fact that Broadberry questions the validity of his own consecration as also that the waters of intention have become sufficiently 'muddied' so that the basic intention of 'doing as the Church does' is rendered impotent."

  • "Orders received in El Palma de Troya post the declaration of Clemente Dominguez Gomez that he is 'Pope Gregory XVII' i.e. 5 August 1978. By auto naming himself pope, Gomez fell into heresy and ceased to be Christian. Any intention of 'doing as the Church does' is most doubtful."


Comment: I think that Mayne/Eifer goes too far in claiming that Gomez "ceased to be Christian" as a result of declaring himself to be pope of his entirely newly created Church – The Holy Palmarian Church. The probabilities are that he may be an heretic and schismatic.






UPDATE as at September 26, 2004

As to:
"Bishop Cox's validity and mine is further attested to by the fact that the Archdiocese of Dublin (Bishop Kavanagh and Mons Alex Stenson) met Bishop Cox on several occasions and asked him to apply for laicisation. Why laicise him if he was not in priestly and episcopal orders ?

Bishop Cox's consecrator, Bishop Ciaran Broadberry was laicised in 1983 through the good offices of Bishop Donal Herlihy of Ferns. Why laicise Bishop Broadberry if he were not in Holy Orders.


I believe that the following entry from the Canon Law Digest, Vol. IX, pp.608/10 from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith may shed some light on why laicisation would be required:
CANON 985

Catholic Converted to "Old Catholics" and Ordained Therein Now Irregular Ex Delicto (S.C. Doct. Fid.. 28 June 1979) Private.

Case. The Archbishop of Milwaukee (Wisconsin, U.S.A.) reported the case and the problem in the following letter.

On April 25, 1979, W.J.S. met with me to talk about his future relationship with the Church. W. has been a member of the National American Catholic Church of the Ultra-jectine Tradition, an offshoot of the Old Catholic Church of America also located here in Milwaukee; he was ordained a priest by a Bishop Edward M. Stehlik 1 on June 5, 1976.

W.S. was born, baptized, and reared in the Roman Catholic Church. He now seeks to be reconciled to it and would like to be considered eligible to serve as a priest. In a letter to me dated April 19, 1979, he wrote: ". . . I wish to serve the people of God as a priest, and to rejoin the Roman communion. At this point, I desire nothing more than to know God's will and to perform it as best I can."

The facts in W.'s case are briefly as follows: He was born August 24, 1949, in the city of Y, and was baptized in infancy in Immaculate Conception Church in that city. He attended Catholic elementary and secondary schools; in the fall of 1967 he entered X College as a student for the priesthood. Upon completing four years of college studies, on the recommendation of his spiritual director, W. voluntarily left the seminary to settle his vocation. Three years later, deciding that he wanted both marriage and ministry, he joined the Old Catholic Church and came to Milwaukee. He married civilly in May, 1974. After receiving diaconate from an Archbishop Facione in Detroit in December, 1975, he was ordained to the priesthood the following June by a Bishop Edward M. Stehlik, who claims jurisdiction in one of the branches of the Old Catholic Church.

W.S., who for a time had legally changed his name to C.S. and who was known by that name as a clergyman, has become disenchanted both with marriage and the Old Catholic Church. No children were born of their civil Marriage. In November, 1978, his wife initiated divorce proceedings; the divorce is not yet final. The petitioner has been allowed to pursue theological studies at a seminary I have designated; he has completed three full semesters there.

W.S. feels that his holy orders may have been valid, since, to the best of his knowledge, the Old Catholic Church endeavored to preserve apostolic succession even though it has undergone multiple divisions over the years. His civil marriage, which was to a Roman Catholic girl, has definitely come to an end; it had never been convalidated. His wife, too, is sincere in her desire to reconcile with the Church and to return to the practice of her faith. W. formally resigned from Bishop Stehlik's jurisdiction in a letter dated May 22, 1979.

I will be in Rome the week of June 17th and I would appreciate an opportunity to discuss this unusual case.

May I respectfully ask your advice on how I might proceed to reconcile W.S. I am enclosing copies of documents relating to his reception of minor and major orders.

(Private); Ord. Milwaukee, letter, 6 June, 1979.

1. Cf. C.L.D., this volume [IX], under canon 1154 regarding Bishop Stehiik.
Furthermore, it is my private opinion that if Fr. Buckley WAS in fact, "consecrated conditionally" by an "Old Catholic" bishop, then the circumstances above would approximate the circumstances of Fr. Patrick Buckley, and that the similar solution as outlined and followed by Bishop Kavanagh, Mons Alex Stenson and Bishop Donal Herlihy would be appropriate. However, we can only hope and pray that Fr. Buckley does present himself in submission to the Holy See.

In view of the mention of the "Old Catholic: Bishop Edward M. Stehlik in the above S.C.D.F. reply I would also recommend the reader to an article written by Fr. Anthony Cekada whilst he was still then an SSPX priest. Fr. Cekada is now a sedevacantist - but the article stands in its own right. Cf. A Warning On The Old Catholics: False Bishops, False Churches."

I also point to the below footnote on Bishop Stehlik which was mentioned in the S.C.D.F. reply. I have not yet viewed that article.

It is also possible that Buckley might have been conditionally consecrated by a schismatic bishop from the Duarte-Costa line, or similar. However, in the now five years since the alleged "conditional consecration" we still only have Fr. Buckley's say-so that the event happened.

Buckley is listed as a member of the "WBC Executive College of Bishops and Official Representatives." "WBC" stands for "World Bishops Council."

It is interesting to view the membership, which lists the consecrating bishop of the member. The entry in the "Database of Autocephalous Bishops shows: "Buckley, Patrick, was consecrated on 19 May 1998 by Michael Patrick O'Connor." The records show that both Fr. Patrick Buckley and his consecrator, Michael Patrick O'Connor, were "consecrated" by one "bishop" only.

EWTN expert, Fr. John Trigilio, commenting on the Apostolic Succession and the Duarte-Costa line
"I could not VERIFY nor REFUTE this claim but if a validly consecrated bishop ordains and consecrates a priest as a bishop it would be valid and that new bishop's ordination would in turn also be valid. HOWEVER, even though several Protestant sects have obtained a valid ordination from a renegade Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox bishop, RARELY if EVER have THREE BISHOPS been present for the episcopal consecration. While not necessary for validity, tradition has required two CO-CONSECRATORS along with the PRINCIPAL CONSECRATOR to ordain the new bishop. The reason for THREE being that there would be no doubt to validity and apostolic succession if three rather than just one ordained the man bishop ... valid orders is one key component but the validly ordained priest or bishop must have valid matter, form and intention when celebrating the sacraments or they are invalid same as if an invalidly ordained cleric tried to use valid matter and form, neither would work."





Further Note as at September 26, 2004:

"Bishop" Pat Buckley's web-site at http://www.bishoppatbuckley.com/ appears to have been put "on-hold" or withdrawn from the Internet.

"Bishop" Buckley has subsequently advised that his new web address is http://bishoppatbuckley.co.uk




Footnotes

  1. refer to "Call me 'mother': ordained to be renegades - ordination of Frances Meigh"

  2. Upon reflection and following editing of the original reply to Fr. Buckley I have decided to place this file on my web-site.

  3. Geoffrey Francis Mayne [Palmarian name: Estanislao], a.k.a. Luc Eifer, a.k.a. Fr. Luc, a.k.a. Fr. Lucifer Legionaire.

  4. Cf. C.L.D., this volume [IX], under canon 1154 regarding Bishop Stehiik.


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