"An Open Letter To Confused 'traditionalists' "
Negative
From: =================
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 23:32:31 EST
Thank you for your "open letter" to "confused traditionalists." Your writing illustrates an already
established observation, namely that liberals like yourself, are very good at Naziism.
If you bother to subject the writings, and speeches and practices of JP2 to the same nazi style
analysis as you applied to Archbishop Lefebvre, you could conceivably discover an anti Christ.
The one consoling fact that keeps me on the right side of the de facto schism is that there is
simply NO ONE to take the place of the Nazi liberal pigs, like yourself who have destroyed our
Churches, perverted our Catholic Faith, poisened our children with the vilest of heresies, and
removed the Holy Sacrament from our midst. You have no one to take your place, and your filthy
deeds will die with you.
************************
My Response To The Above:
To ================
April 3, 2000
Normally I would not reply to a person whose lack of intestinal fortitude will not permit him to
identify himself, while all the while allowing himself the pseudo-bravado of writing as you have.
However, I will make an exception this time. The ridiculous nature of your assessment is demonstrated
when you identify me in the following terms: "Nazi liberal pigs, like yourself who have destroyed our
Churches, perverted our Catholic Faith, poisened our children with the vilest of heresies, and
removed the Holy Sacrament from our midst."
For your information, I recommenced attending the Tridentine Mass in 1974 - possibly before you
were even born!
I assisted with contributions for the education of the seminarian at Econe, Gerard Hogan.
I was one of the Executive members who helped organize the establishment of The Society of St
Pius X in Australia.
I have a letter of from Archbishop Lefebvre, dated 16th February 1982, as follows:
"Dear Mr & Mrs Loughnan, It is with deep gratitude that I think back to my visit to Australia, and I
wish to thank you, and all those who helped you, for your kind reception of Father Hogan and
myself. May God reward your attachment to the Tradition of the Holy Church by pouring out many
graces upon you and your families through the intercession of Our Lady. etc."
All this time, and up to the consecrations of the four bishops in 1988, Archbishop Lefebvre was
still a bishop in good standing (although demonstrating a schismatic mentality) and was still in
communion with Rome.
Subsequent to the consecrations he was not. It still took me many years to shake off the potentially deadly
- yes, even mortally deadly - influence built up over so many years. I thank God that I have now
returned to full unity with my local parish priest, who is in communion with his Archbishop (George
Pell), who is in communion with the Pope in Rome.
I do not deny or minimize the troubles in the Church - as I do not minimize the difficulties that Our
Lord had with His Apostles and disciples, and as there have been at the highest (through to the
lowest) levels throughout the history of the Church. On the other hand, you make claims which
you fail to substantiate, and which go further than those of the vacillating Archbishop Lefebvre.
Furthermore, that you should equate Pope John Paul II with "an anti Christ" is only additional
evidence of the bankruptcy of your own Catholicity. You, of course, know better than the pope.
In your mind, you are the arbiter of Catholicity. May God have mercy on you and all SSPXers as
He has had mercy on me, and bring us all to the fullness of the Faith. We are all subject to "the
test".
This is what I focus upon:
I believe that Jesus Christ IS God, the second Person of the Blessed Trinity incarnate;
He was NOT a liar; he was NOT a con-man;
He promised to be with HIS Church until the end of time;
The promise of binding and loosening was given to St Peter and ALL his successors (good, bad,
murdered, murderers, pirates, saints, etc.) in the proper exercise of their mission.
Even if I follow the Blaise Pascall "wager" method, how can I lose?
Kind regards,
John
***********************
From: =================
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 10:01:56 EDT
Dear Mr. Loughnan,
Thank you for your response. I regret that you are obviously offended by my verbiage. In the
recent past, I have come to use such terminology because there is no other recourse. It seems
to me that people that write and speak the way you do, shall not hear of anything of the other
side. That's ok with me.
I am happy that you "found God" in the corrupt Church. By the way, i am still very much in that
same corrupt Church. I never left it, only because i am afraid of what might happen to me. But
i loathe the present situation, and that situation has all but ruined my spiritual life. I never
bargained for all this nonsense. I never agreed to be celibate for what has become, really and
truly, this new religion. Yes, it is a new religion. Contruct an operational definition of "religion"
and then apply it to the pre Vatican2 Church and the post Vatican2 church. You had the relative
psychological luxury of being able ( I am assuming) to make a living outside the post V2 church.
I did not have that luxury. I had to resort to going back to school to attain credentials that
would allow me to remain a priest and at the same time to make a living, and to be able to
minimize the deadly effects of the Novus Ordo. I am happy that you have found your way, and
that you are, apparantly, confortable with the NO. I am not, and I shall never be in that position.
I am forced to tolerate and be silent. In any event, no one can force me to agree with anything,
especially heresy, even if it looks nice. JP2? Never mind.
I did not intend to be anonymous. An e-mail address is not "anonymity", but I shall identify:
(Rev.
Dr.) ===============, NY, USA
If you require more identification, please advise. Thanks and God bless you and your family.
**************************
To: Rev. Dr. =================, [===============]
April 4, 2000
Dear Fr. =========,
Well! At the moment you are a bit of a basket case, aren't you? I am certainly not in a position to
preach at you; I am certainly not your equal; I am certainly not qualified to give any spiritual
guidance, and I am sure that you would not wish that I should.
I am qualified, however, to say that you and I are brothers in Christ and that I have had a taste
- perhaps a fraction of the taste - of what you are suffering; and I can sympathize and empathize
with you.
At this point I will not overburden you with argument, but I propose to send you a few things from
time to time.
When you sent me your first message, I figured that, in all probability a similar type of message
may have been sent to Stephen Hand. So I contacted Stephen and asked whether he had
received such a message. He replied that he had, and he sent to me a copy of his reply (but not
a copy of the message received). His reply disguised the identity of the person to whom it was
sent, but I guess it may have been sent to you. In any event the message "bounced".
Accordingly, I attach a copy of what I received from Stephen below, in the event that it may be
of interest to you.
Secondly, I attach a copy of a file posted to Steve Ray's Catholic Convert Board. This Board is
vibrant proof that the Catholic Church does still attract converts - quality converts at that. May
I recommend that you have a look at this discussion list? (http://www.catholic-convert.com/wwwmessage/)
I find the file interesting in that it is a demonstration of the suffering of priests at a particular point
in time; probably, it is a fate required of Our Lord's servants; suffering takes many forms - you are
suffering in a particular way now. Please God, it is for the ultimate good of your soul and the good
of His Church which is also undergoing a passion in imitation of its Lord. Like all suffering souls you
must have courage to endure.
I consider myself entitled to call myself a "convert" - or, more correctly, a revert - from the
schism of the SSPX. It has not been easy to renounce the Society of St Pius X, where I still have
several very close friends. At first, my wife and I attended the Cistercian Abbey at Tarrawarra,
Victoria, Australia - seeking the tranquillity and undoubted Catholicity of the monks. After about a
year, we transferred to our local parish where the priest is perfectly orthodox, we have Stations of
the Cross during Lent, Exposition and Benediction monthly and simple Exposition weekly. We attend
Mass daily there (twice on Saturday) and then on Sunday at Tarrawarra. The file that riled you is
the result of a self-imposed penance for my sins.
I will close with that and wish you God's Blessing,
With kind regards,
******************************
Then there was this follow-up exchange:
******************************
>----- Original Message -----
>From: ===============
>To: "TCR" dshn@msn.com
>Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:54 PM
>Subject: Thanks you again
>>I thank you once again for all the information I receive from your wonderful Web site. It has
been a treasure for Holy Week. I found the Holy Father's message to priests, printed it out and
gave it to the other three priests. You are doing a lot of good for the Catholic Church. Truth is
truth. A thing cannot be and not be at the same time. We can combat heresy with truth and
courage. Modernists are not kind people. thank you.
>From: "TCR" dshn@email.msn.com
>To: ===============
>Subject: Re: Thanks you again
>Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:32:07 -0400
>Received: from [207.46.181.60] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id
>Dear Father:
>Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. Indeed, modernist's are often not kind
people...but let's hope some "know not what they do, " and that they will receive the grace to
awaken from the dreams of a false and decadent "freedom".
>A blessed triddum and Easter to you.
>Px,
>Stephen Hand
**********************
April 22, 2000
Dear Fr. ===============,
Just a brief note to wish you a happy Easter; you may not receive this note until after Easter
Sunday, which will be so much the better. It is now 6:09pm Saturday evening. My wife and I
will be attending our local parish church for the 5am Vigil on Sunday.
Anyway, I hope you receive all the blessings of your priesthood and contentment of soul.
With kind regards and God Bless,
John Loughnan
Positive
Well, well! It looks like I've stumbled onto something of potential significance in seeing a possible
"traditionalist Catholic"/Christian Identity/neo-Nazi connection.
1.
Which of the book titles you listed above were especially endorsed, promoted, or even sold and/or
published by SSPX and other quasi-traditionalist groups? (I recognize some titles as having KKK,
neo-Nazi, or Christian Identity origins.)
Was Lefebvre himself an anti-Semite?
Btw, have you thought of adding a page to your web site on this issue?
Also, Mark Shea suggested that I approach Patrick Madrid at Envoy Magazine about writing article
on this subject in general --i.e., the seduction of orthodox and quasi-traditionalist Catholics by
Holocaust "revisionists." Would you be interested in joining such a project?
John E
2.
Thanks for this info! Yes, I'm a little familiar with "Holy War: Tradizione Cattolica" Truly despicable
stuff. But haven't done an in-depth look-see at it. But will do so now!
John E
I want to thank you for this article and I pray that we can facilitate its wide exposure. You
are to be commended for your very careful homework, very good writing, and careful analysis.
As I said in the abstract, "Many of us had to learn the hard way. We wish to make it easier for
others. John Loughnan has done the Church an important service."
I know that your hard work is going to pay hard but rich spiritual dividends for all of us and for
the whole Church.
Steve
[Stephen Hand, Traditional Catholic Resources]
PS
I must confess I did not know that Lefebvre and the others were behind the so-called
Ottaviani intervention. Now that your article has informed me, I have removed the link to it
from our site since I can no longer consider it a mere objective analysis. Nor can I tempt others
to think it so.
Steve
Subject: Re: "An Open Letter To Confused 'traditionalists' ".
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:15:14 -0500
Thanks!
I have started to read it and found it fascinating. Keep up the good work!
Fr. Arnaud J. Devillers, FSSP, District Superior, Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter
A great read! Thanks!
One thing I've noticed in my dealings with these quasi-"Catholics" over the past months is that
(1) their epistemology is little different from that of the post-modernist liberal and humanist
(i.e., it reeks of skepticism and relativism); and (2) they tend to be intellectual schizophrenics,
contradicting themselves and holding mutually exclusive positions.
But this is perfectly predictable, for once one loses faith in the Church's indefectibility and the
living Magisterium's authority, everything else is fair game. It's no wonder, for example, that
the so-called "traditionalist" movement condones --if not out-and-out promotes!-- racism,
anti-Semitism, and Holocaust denial.
The crypto-protestant and (dare I say it?) Satanic chickens have come home to roost.
The Curmudgeon
Last Revised: March 13, 2001
